His Dark Materials

mk's picture

I was reading a "favorite books" thread on Pajiba the other week and the fantasy series His Dark Materials" came up in people's lists over and over. I started to listen to the audio version of the books a couple of years ago with my daughter using a library copy, but a broken tape a little ways in brought us to a halt. Is anyone familiar with this stuff? From what little I heard, it seemed like it had potential. A fantasy series that may or may not be for kids, but written a bit more intelligently than the usual stuff.

A movie has been made that may be great or may suck. Still, my interest is piqued.

Stevo Darkly's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

In this weird but kinda entertaining thread at H&R, Tim Cavanaugh mentioned that he was reading it and liked it but nevertheless found it kind of tough going because of its length (and the fact that it was merely the first part of a sprawling trilogy). But it sounded intriguing to me.

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Jadagul's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I enjoyed the books a lot, although I thought the third one was rather depressing at the end. But your mileage may vary; and Stevo's comment surprised me because I think of those books as relatively short.

Stevo Darkly's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I'm not familiar with the book myself -- my comment was based on Tim Cavanaugh's comment, which was:

Quote:
Stevo, I'm currently trying to read The Golden Compass, the first volume in Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" series, and while it doesn't seem bad, I'm looking at 300+ pages to go, which will only get me through the first volume of what is at least a trilogy. (In other words, I'm about to put it aside.) There's a similar counterfactual historical context, where it's the twentieth century but they're discussing Tartars who are marching on Muscovy, Pope Calvin's having moved the Vatican to Geneva back in the sixteenth century, etc. Hardy Har Har. Can you or anybody else tell me if there's any reason to press on with this book?

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Stevo Darkly's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I ran across these books at Borders last night. And Jadagul is right -- they are of moderate length at best, or can even be considered short, because their font size is huge compared to most of the stuff I've been reading lately. I therefore concluded that when Tim Cavanaugh expressed a lack of enthusiams for having to plow through a lot of pages, he meant the trilogy as a whole.

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Stevo Darkly's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

[Double post deleted.]

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Eric the .5b's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I haven't read them, and before this thread, the only comments I'd heard about it were glowing raves from the angry breed of atheists and "yeah, we get it, you hate Christianity," from folks I thought of as sensible theists.

So, not as bad as that?

Stevo Darkly's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

mk wrote:
A movie has been made that may be great or may suck. Still, my interest is piqued.

Mine too -- I finally got around to looking at the trailer. And I'm a sucker for:

- Airships
- Alternate history
- Mutant Victoriana
- Oversized carnivores

Plus it has Nicole Kidman in it (she's pretty) and Sam Elliott (he's pretty cool).

EDIT: And if the author has a stick up his ass about Christards, I'm sure it will be toned down for the movie. Plus the whole idea of the Catholic Church as an eeeeeeeeeeevilllllllll organization is, frankly, kind of titillating. Ditto even for "God is a freako" speculations. It's like those "what if dear old Dad was really a serial killer" type stories, from my POV.

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Jadagul's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

Eric the .5b wrote:
I haven't read them, and before this thread, the only comments I'd heard about it were glowing raves from the angry breed of atheists and "yeah, we get it, you hate Christianity," from folks I thought of as sensible theists.

So, not as bad as that?

Well, the third book in particular was a bit thick on the "religion and the Catholic Church are evil" bit. AT some point I wanted to say, "Hey, dude, we get it. You don't like the Pope. Calm the hell down." But it's a fun series (until the end of the third book, which has a sad-ish ending). And well-written--enough so to leave me in tears at the end.

But then, I was 16 or so, and tended to do that pretty easily :)

bzial's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

The film makers have already explicitly noted they will be toning down the anti-religious elements. They said they didn't want to, in particular, risk offending American audiences.

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Re: His Dark Materials

I've read the first book of the trilogy but am holding off on parts 2 & 3 . More accurately, I read the first book to my daughter - its a bit much for a 7 year old, so nix 2 & 3 for a while. Not being a fantasy fiction person, it's not something i would have come by on my own - found it in a list of fiction for children - and having read it can't say i'm particularly enthused. Pullman's innovation is that the Fantasy tropes are backed by SF style plausibility thats far more reasonable than "midichlorians in the bloodstream". The whole thing occurs in a counterfactual parallel Eurpoe where there was no refromation, the Catholic Church is dominant etc - as others have mentioned, the book is explicitly anti-clerical. That's another reason for not reading 2 & 3 - i don't mind the God & Catholic bashing, but imagine explaining it to a 7 year old.
So it might be fun if you are into fantasy.

mk's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

he was reading it and liked it but nevertheless found it kind of tough going because of its length

The thing that really bugged me about that tape breaking was that it seemed like the plot has just really started to get going. It seemed to start slowly, but you could tell it was going somewhere.

grylliade's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I could never really get into His Dark Materials. I don't know what it was, exactly. It wasn't the anti-religious (or anti-clerical, or whatever) slant, because that doesn't start until later, and I only got through the first book. The writing didn't do anything for me, and the plotting seemed rather dull and hackneyed, IIRC. For whatever reason, I never even tried to read the second book, although the series came highly recommended. I might try again, and see if it was just my mood at the moment. I did that with Wizard's First Rule, which was better than I remembered, but still pretty crappy. And that's with an author who's an objectivist!

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Jadagul's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

grylliade wrote:
I did that with Wizard's First Rule, which was better than I remembered, but still pretty crappy. And that's with an author who's an objectivist!

Really? I'm a big fan of that series—well, parts of it. Everyone should skip books 7 and 8. Not only are they crappy, but they're completely and totally unecessary to understand the excellent books 9 and 10. But I really liked the first one. What didn't you like about it?

Heraclitus's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I've heard in general that the books become less good as one gets through them. Then again, I thought the same of LOTR.

I can't see how they could be construed as long.

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Randolph Carter's picture

Re: His Dark Materials

I dig the talking polar bear. That always works for me in books.

Oddly enough, I was switching between The Amber Spyglass and Anarchy, State, and Utopia while I was at the 2-week training camp for my state's All-State football game. Got lots of funny looks from the other linemen.

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Re: His Dark Materials

I read the series. They do get less good as you go on. Slowly, as things get explained, the coherence of the themes dissolve. It tries to explain too much, which ultimately makes it hard to get through. The plot is a victim of the author's increasing fascination with his own genius.

Kind of like a Tad Williams jaunt.