I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. Ledger's Joker was thoroughly dark and twisted in a way that I thoroughly enjoyed. It also was a demonstration of his great range because the Joker was thoroughly psychopathic. It was awesome. I'm disappointed that his death mean there won't be a return of the Joker. I thought it did a good job of handling the various civil liberties issues as well. Overall, I give it a solid recommendation.
__________________
If you don't want to be arrested by the Park Police, don't go to the Jefferson Memorial.
Re: The Dark Knight
The Dark Knight was pretty awesome.
*****SPOILER*****
The Joker scene with the pencil is one of the most crazy brutal things I've ever seen on screen. That was a fantastic performance by Heath Ledger.
The only think I didn't like was that Harvey Dent's motivation to become a bad guy was never really convincing to me.
But, as Deepak Chopra taught us, quantum physics means anything can happen at any time for no reason! Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war... who's the real animal?
=Professor Farnsworth
Re: The Dark Knight
My thoughts here.
"love is like porn, you know" -- Ali
Re: The Dark Knight
DAR,
I loved the review and agree. I always hated the split between "serious" and other movies in the eye of the Academy. I think Ledger's psychopath role is more impressive than the standard "hero standing up against racism/oppression" archetype that always wins best actor.
**MINOR SPOILER**
By the way, the ferry scene kinda annoyed me because it seemed to go against the grain of the way Gotham was.
If you don't want to be arrested by the Park Police, don't go to the Jefferson Memorial.
Re: The Dark Knight
I thought it was fantastic. They finally made a movie that captured the true Joker; the last movie that had him showed him as being too much like a standard criminal whose shtick was wearing greasepaint and doing "wacky" destructive things while committing crimes. This one got it; the Joker is possessed of a logic entirely his own, one entirely dedicated to carrying out his own brand of "humor." The best run-ins with society that he has in the comic are almost never the ones where he kills people; they're the ones where he doesn't, and in so doing holds a mirror up to the people he's dealing with. He's like the performance artist from Hell, and the movie did a great job of capturing that.
I also thought that Dent's fall was really well done. Dent spends the movie falling increasingly closer to the people who he spent his time fighting. He was on the edge halfway through the movie, and, ultimately, he wasn't able to deal with the Joker's attempts to destroy everything he cared about. It reminds me of "The Killing Joke," with Dent in the place of Gordon. Really raises the question of just how far any of us would have to be pushed before we'd wind up the same way.
The only problem;Two problems; the theater's air conditioning was off for much of the movie. It was actually hotter inside than it was on the street after the movie. In Virginia, that's saying something. And, I hate it when they do "same part, different actress." It feels like they're insulting my intelligence. Though I can see why it was necessary.I CAUTION YOU / IN DEFEATING ORCS WE MAY FIND THE ONLY VILLAIN LEFT TO FACE IS OUR OWN PREJUDICE--qwantz.com
Re: The Dark Knight
I saw it at this place called Chunkys, where they serve you dinner and beer right before the movie, and keep bringing the beer throughout. Another plus, the chairs are all big and cushy and they recline. So yeah, sorry about that Shem...
But, as Deepak Chopra taught us, quantum physics means anything can happen at any time for no reason! Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war... who's the real animal?
=Professor Farnsworth
Re: The Dark Knight
My beloved thought that the movie was full of heavy-handed moralizing and commentary on the current state of the world. To her, it was at least in part an allegory for the war on terror. I, OTOH, thought it was deliberately ambiguous, with no clearly drawn moral, except that the joker is a bad guy. Thoughts?
**spoiler**
The ferry scene was a bullshit cop-out. IRL, it would have been raining body parts.
"Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind... I am ashamed to think how easily we capitulate to badges and names, to large societies and dead institutions.."-Emerson
Re: The Dark Knight
Good flick. My $.02 is that Maggie Gylllillillynnhaaalll phoned it in and I can't stand the Batman voice in these last two movies, and Two Face is inherently goofy in a way that is amplified when he's standing next to a truly stunning Joker, but even with all that - it was really good.
Re: the heavy handedness, I think it was an adult treatment of good guy bad guy. It was a different kind of message that played with the normal scripts - that there is no good guy or bad guy if you look close enough or that legality is the same as goodness. If you are predisposed to the 'there are no good guys' line of thought, I can see you not liking the movie.
I'm sympathetic to the view of good and bad laid out in the movie. There are some people who just want to crap all over everything. They are a special case because standard deterrents are ineffective and because they specialize in making good choices extremely expensive for the other side. It's not deep thought, nor a direct analogy to current events, but I think some legitimate points are made in a project that was mostly just fun.
I'm with 6 on the ferry scene, and I think in some ways that could have been handled more dramatically had they gone a different way with it and made the point even better.
Re: The Dark Knight
I don't know if it would have been raining body parts in real life, because in real life those detonators would have been in the hands of the cops or national guardsmen and there's at least a chance that they would have awaited orders. But if those cops or national guardsmen were surrounded by an angry mob? Yeah, raining body parts. Either that, or a whole bunch of people die when they charge and get gunned down. Either way, a lot uglier than the movie.
I also hate the new Batman voice.
If we want to get all serious and current-eventsy for a moment, the Joker may be a better analogy for terrorists than a lot of people realize. A few years ago, the Economist observed that for more than a century there have been movements that profess one radical ideology or another (from the anarchists who killed heads of state a century ago to the radical leftists of the 1970's to Al Qaeda today), and perhaps their peripheral supporters are down with the ideology, but the hard core guys really just want to see stuff burn, no matter what ideology they may offer for it. I suspect that in the core of Al Qaeda there are people who really just want to watch it burn, no matter what label they may put on it. I'm not sure we need to change the laws to deal with them, but we should consider the possibility that while the masses might be inflamed by causes and ideology, the guys who actually plan and do the stuff really just want to burn shit down.
"the only thing worse than a freeper is a blue state freeper that doesn't realize they're a freeper." -dhex
hoisted by their own waterboard!
-dhex
Re: The Dark Knight
The wife, without the baggage of comic book knowledge, fairly notes that Two Face is made goofy not only because he's standing next to Joker, but also because we've recently been introduced to one Anton Chigurh. She thought they ripped off No Country for a bad guy. If Ledger's Joker is the definitive modernization for a post Dark Knight world, Chigurh is what Two Face can be.
Re: The Dark Knight
I thought that the ferry scene would end with boat that pushed the button blowing up.
But, as Deepak Chopra taught us, quantum physics means anything can happen at any time for no reason! Also, eat plenty of oatmeal, and animals never had a war... who's the real animal?
=Professor Farnsworth
Re: The Dark Knight
I thought that too, but it wouldn't have fit with the Joker. Yes, he reversed the locations of Rachel and Dent, but that was to frustrate the would-be heroes. Punishing people who tried to save themselves at the expense of others isn't something that the Joker would do. He'd let them live.
"the only thing worse than a freeper is a blue state freeper that doesn't realize they're a freeper." -dhex
hoisted by their own waterboard!
-dhex
Re: The Dark Knight
See, I agree that he wouldn't have gone for the surprise, but because there's no greater point to be made in switching things up. The Joker is all about making statements; short of the commentary about the ultimate reward of altruism. there's no greater point to it. I thought that they'd both push the button, but the one that was wired up to the criminal boat wouldn't work. Of course, nobody would know that, since the other boat's trigger would, and so the end that he wanted would be assured; everyone would be forced to question just how far human kindness goes in a life-threatening crisis.
I CAUTION YOU / IN DEFEATING ORCS WE MAY FIND THE ONLY VILLAIN LEFT TO FACE IS OUR OWN PREJUDICE--qwantz.com
Re: The Dark Knight
I finally saw this yesterday. I thought it was pretty good! I also found the result of the ferry scene somewhat incredible and unrealistic. And I also thought that whoever hit the detonator would blow their own boat up.
Health Ledger was pretty good, but he did kind of seem to be like Heath Ledger playing Jack Nicholson playing the joker. And he kept making these gross chewing noises with his mouth!
The question of talent aside, why does this girl have an acting career? Her face is WEIRD!
Me, either! He sounds like a half-assed heavy metal singer. It's just silly.
Also, I thought Harvey Dent/Aaron Eckhart was really good, but I agree with Randolph Carter that his motivations for becoming purely amoral seemed a bit flimsy given his impeccable good-guy past.
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having. - V
UNDERPANTS HAWK
DOES NOT DESIRE YOUR TOUCH
I long for the day that a chimp will ghost-ride someone's boomcar into a lake. - tymac
Re: The Dark Knight
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! The reason she has a career is because her facial expression perfectly captures slutty innocence (or innocent sluttitude, take your pick), a quality men are hard wired to be attracted to. And Ledger's little lip smacking business was brilliant! I don't see him as riffing off the Nicholson version at all, bearing in mind that they both had a comic villain with some preexisting personality to have to work with. IMO, the moment he does the, um, pencil trick you know Ledger has created an entirely distinct character
"love is like porn, you know" -- Ali
Re: The Dark Knight
No, I get the concept of slutty innocence (or innocent sluttitude). I'm sayin'...you don't need to have a weird face to capture slutty innocence. And anyway, I was saying, I'm not talking about her acting abilities. I'm talkin' about her FACE.
Oh yeah, brilliant "lip smacking"...I'll smack his lips. I'll smack his face! It was gross. He copied that off of Nicholson, too.
A revolution without dancing is a revolution not worth having. - V
UNDERPANTS HAWK
DOES NOT DESIRE YOUR TOUCH
I long for the day that a chimp will ghost-ride someone's boomcar into a lake. - tymac
Re: The Dark Knight
No, Nicholson might have done it once or twice, I'd have to rewatch it to check, but it was a signature defining mannerism for Ledger's Joker together with the way he would chronically crock his head and look up and off to the right. And, besides, the guy is wearing pancake makeup and dripping mascara and you think his lip smacking was gross?
EDIT: I think Maggie Gyllenhaal is attractive. It's a girl next door look. *shrug* And I've pretty much always liked her work. But, you know, to each his or her own.
"love is like porn, you know" -- Ali
Re: The Dark Knight
I also thought that the detonator would blow up their own. Aside from the inmate throwing the detonator out the window, the ferry scene grew on me with subsequent watchings. It seems to capture the lack of will for most to actually pull the trigger and kill hundreds thing. I didn't think the Ledger Joker was a rip off of Jack's. They were distinctive kind of crazies. What's next, Jack took his Joker from Caesar Romero?
If you don't want to be arrested by the Park Police, don't go to the Jefferson Memorial.
Re: The Dark Knight
I think Maggie G. has a slightly unusual but attractive face. Kind of like Christina Ricci's face but not as much.
"My intellect is gigantic, monstrous, terrifying."
Re: The Dark Knight
What does it say about me that the pencil trick is probably my favorite part of the movie?
Someday if Jennifer serves on a jury, I would like to see her rise up in the middle of the trial and yell, "No, you're out of water! And you're out of water! They're out of water! This whole trial is out of water!". - Stevo Darkly-
Re: The Dark Knight
That you're destined to be a senior partner someday?
"love is like porn, you know" -- Ali
Re: The Dark Knight
Umm...yeah.
Whenever I catch so much as a glimpse of pr0n, I suddenly turn into a sex-crazed barbarian, slashing and clawing my way through whatever and whomever until I find something to put my weiner into. -- Taktix
Re: The Dark Knight
OK, I'm completely forgetting: What was the pencil trick?
"the only thing worse than a freeper is a blue state freeper that doesn't realize they're a freeper." -dhex
hoisted by their own waterboard!
-dhex
Re: The Dark Knight
SPOILER WARNING
**When Joker puts the pencil on the table pointing up, then rams the guy's head down into said table, jamming the pencil through his eye. One of the more memorable scenes in the movie.
I CAUTION YOU / IN DEFEATING ORCS WE MAY FIND THE ONLY VILLAIN LEFT TO FACE IS OUR OWN PREJUDICE--qwantz.com
Re: The Dark Knight
I'm sure Shem doesn't view it more than 14 times per day.
If you weren't doing anything wrong, then you have no reason to be afraid while they kick the crap out of you. - D.A. Ridgely
Re: The Dark Knight
Are you kidding? I joined a reenactment society. Well, until the Judge shut us down. Apparently freedom of association really is dead in this country.
I CAUTION YOU / IN DEFEATING ORCS WE MAY FIND THE ONLY VILLAIN LEFT TO FACE IS OUR OWN PREJUDICE--qwantz.com
Re: The Dark Knight
I may have to re-enact that scene during my next midterm. Here, kid, let me show you how momentum works....
"the only thing worse than a freeper is a blue state freeper that doesn't realize they're a freeper." -dhex
hoisted by their own waterboard!
-dhex
Re: The Dark Knight
I finally saw this yesterday. Aside from the stuff already mentioned, I was pleased that the Joker kept changing his background story and the cops couldn't determine his identity. It was a small part of the movie, but it matched the comics and was a big improvement over Nicholson's version. The Joker isn't supposed to have a fleshed-out origin explaining his motivations, he just Is. I also liked how it drew on one of the themes from The Dark Knight Returns and made it clear that the Joker's existence depends on Batman.