grylliade.org Free minds. Free markets. Free beer.

Whoa whoa whoa. I watch the show. It's entertaining. I like it. But it is NOT libertarian, it does NOT "get the message out". It's basically 'Desperate Housewives with pot'. To the extent that it has a message, it's "affluent people are all shallow and self centered" and "crime doesn't pay".

EDIT: I can't watch the video at work, so I apologize for addressing an ancillary point

But that's just it, each season she gets in deeper. Her family is sliding downward. He brother in law, is a loser sponging off her and she can't shake him loose. Her eldest son might have made something of himself but now has the family business to keep him on the loser track. Her younger son is somewhat gifted but isn't getting the attention and nurturing he needs. And she had to sell her daughter to white slavers between seasons 1 and 2 (and never speak of her again).

She keeps getting into trouble with the law and with other parts of the drug trade. Trouble that threatens her and her families very lives. Indeed her ex-lover/husband was murdered over a drug deal. Some of the other characters in the show aren't doing so bad, or at least their troubles aren't directly connected to their participation in the dope market. But Nancy's tale is a cautionary one. It's really spelled out with big anvils falling from the sky season after season, episode after episode. "DRUGS ARE BAD"

She had a maid who refused to do any housework for most of a season before we knew why--the maid finally came out and blackmailed her after getting fired.

Remember the white trash bikers she had to deal with? Why should she have to deal with white trash bikers? The crips? The Latino gang? Why should she have to deal with ANY of that? ...because of the hypocrisy and stupidity of her upper middle class neighbors?

I've never seen the libertarian case made better for a general audience.

Mary Louise Parker is just about the only straight character in the series.

By "straight", of course, I mean as in straight man. Like in the "Who's on First" routine, one guy is the guy who's the mark and the other guy is playing it straight.

Even if the American people don't get it on a conscious level, it's there. And we're not talking about really complicated plots here.

Ken sometimes you say shit that really has me worried. Neither Nancy nor her son has a speck of moral fiber. (EDIT: I missed that you said "youngest son", yes he is a person of quality. Too bad his future is being traded away for a big house and SUV) The only people on the show who do are Heylia's family. Drug dealers that know what their doing, not just self-centered lazy white yuppies stumbling from one tragedy to the next, crossing one line after another as they commit bigger felonies and acts of self degradation for cash.

And to answer your questions: They have to deal with the criminal underworld and the law because... wait for it... they are criminals. Sure weed should be legal, but that doesn't have the first thing to do with this show. If it wasn't illegal, there wouldn't be enough profit in it to have lured Nancy into it. The only reason she's a drug dealer is because of the fact that it's against the law. Maybe that's the lesson you're talking about "If it wasn't for this stupid drug war, decent white folks would stay home and clip coupons and not have anything to do with those scary Blacks and Mexicans"

That's a message I can relate to. I've seen it made better, by people like Jacob Sullum and Penn&Teller, but I think WEEDS just rehashes the same old tired drug war messages "Drugs are bad m'kay"

I'll say this for it. At least the writers have actually "done research" on how dope is produced, distributed, and consumed. Most of the details are right. Weeds is the only show I've ever seen where they know how to use a bong.

He shoots, he scores! Yes, I concede THAT was an excellent scene.

I don't buy the "ordinary" people thing though. These are all cartoon TV characters. I get most my giggles from Councilman Doug. He's so comfortably corrupt I can't help but laugh (though I don't know why you find the 'cankles' scene so hysterical, I preferred the crucifix heist myself). Some of the most interesting characters are the elder son's girlfriends and are written off the show too soon. Like Celia's daughter (also sold into slavery) and the deaf girl. The born again Olsen girl is the exception, she was interesting for only about two episodes.

Not exactly. There was no need to convert, the whole family is Jewish. He needed to be enrolled in rabbinical school to be granted "conscientious objector" status with the military. This story line played very fast and loose with the facts. But hey, it's just a TV show.

IIRC
Him: Looks big
Her: It'll fit

Seriously, I'm not a fanboy.

I got into Farscape in a big way. I loved Lancelot Link, Get Smart and Speed Racer when I was a kid. That's been about it.

...but I could become a fanboy for this show. On principle.

What red blooded American, libertarian boy doesn't wanna see that?

I can't wait for the next season to start.

What are you, the anti-Shultz?

Hot lesbian marathon action! This libertarian boy would... uhh I don't want to get banned so >Insert funny flattering VERY sexy comment here<

Thanks R C, and can we assume you're with me on hot lesbian marathon action as well?

The first episode of the new season aired tonight, by the way, and "Agresstic" or "Fake Santa Clarita", as I call it, burned to the ground in the last episode of last season. So they've moved to the beach, supposedly, just outside of Carlsbad or Oceanside, supposedly, but unless I'm horribly mistaken, and I don't think I am, the house they're in now is in the part of town where I am--Manhattan Beach--maybe Hermosa, but I think it's Manhattan.

I know that spot. I'm almost sure I know that spot.

It's a fair cop.

Just for clarity. Ken thinks that when Evel had a couple of guys hold a man while he beat him with a baseball bat, over a book claiming that Evel was a violent man with a temper, that makes him a "genuine bad-ass".

What happens when the Schultz and the anti-Shultz combine?

Either an explosion or this thread, I guess.

What rough beast slouches across broken glass toward Bethlehem
Waiting for Kerry Howley's children to be born?

Now I'm gonna feel bad 'cause Thoreau hasn't seen it yet, but this week's new episode. With Celia in jail.

...all dolled up, hair, makeup, plucked eyebrows, like she were made up by a latina/black gangbanger from Central Los Angeles...

Again. The message is that these otherwise regular, everyday people keep getting caught up in the Drug War... ...and it's so unfair.

The message doesn't have to hit you over the head to be effective. And the message is pervasive. It's everywhere in the show. Everywhere.

Nancy Botwin for President!

Weeds is more overtly about the Drug War than M*A*S*H was about Vietnam.

No, the message was the absurdity of treating a middle class suburbanite as if she were a gangbanger.

Since we talked about it, by the way, I thought I might as well post the link...

...um, for those of you who may not have caught on to the subtlety, the clip's about the DRUG WAR! It's about THE DRUG WARRRRR!!!

What are you people, KIDDING?! Holy Shit! I'm already too crazy to drive insane, okay? Won't work. The show's about the freakin' DRUG WAR!

Ken, I get what you're saying, but the basic message is that ordinary people who get involved with drugs get caught up with criminal activities. There are two ways to look at that: Either you blame the drug war for turning their harmless activity into an underworld thing, or you blame the people who got a little greedy and chose to start selling stuff that harms The Children.

I share your way of looking at it, but I'll bet that a lot of people enjoy the show while seeing it the other way.

Hell, Reagan thought that "Born in the USA" was a song about how great the US is. And a lot of couples play "Every Breath You Take" at their weddings because they think it's a love song.

And most people who watched M*A*S*H back during the Vietnam War may have thought it was a comedy about people in Korea! I doubt it.

...that certainly wasn't the intention of the writers.

And just to be clear, I'd like to point out that if I were writing a TV show against The Drug War, I'd have everyday middle class people having things go bad for them too--because of the Drug War. ...because marijuana is criminalized!

Tell me how many people in the series have been worse off for having smoked marijuana? Anyone? I can't think of anyone!

...by the hypocrisies of their neighbors, hell yes! By the illegality of the stuff, hell yes! But I can't think of anyone being hurt in the series because "Drugs are bad."

OK, that's a damn good point.

I guess that what I'm contending here is that the message is too subtle for some people. It's there, but it's subtle enough that those who want to misinterpret the show can very easily do so.

But that's a damn good point: The closest the show ever came to having any sort of negative narrative on drug use was in the pilot, when Nancy got upset that a guy was dealing to kids. And even then, the protagonist acting responsibly was a drug dealer.

I still can't believe that you like a show with such a negative portrayal of real estate developers :)

You think about that for a minute and it makes a guy wonder--what the hell kinda capitalist was Rand anyway?!

And the funny thing is, that "Weeds" is exactly the kind of thing she couldn't have written. She might use a little dramatic irony, letting us know who's evil and who's good before the other characters find out--but she couldn't envision a Doug or a Celia. ...people who are good like the rest of us in that they're trying to do the best they can, but they're bad like the rest of us too in that they make, sometimes, big mistakes. ...especially when pressed.

Another piece that showed this, what I'll call, "Babbit"* phenomenon well, like "Weeds" does, is "The Man Who Wasn't There". I won't give it away for anyone who hasn't seen it, but underlying the whole film is the realization that all the characters are both victims of and progenitors of this harsh and unforgiving conformity.

It's the main reason we can't get marijuana legalized by the way. Convincing college students isn't the answer. Getting hard nosed, right wing libertarians on board isn't the answer. Making the logical arguments probably isn't the answer either. It's getting Soccer/Security Moms and Dad to accept other people for being different and wanting different things. It's getting them to accept their own differences as acceptable too.

I still think things like the beats, rock and roll, the hippies, punk rock and new wave, new age--these kinds of things do more for libertarianism than any election ever will. A show like this... It's libertarian in the most basic sense. And it gets the message out.

...now maybe it's hidden so those Lew Rockwell types won't recognize it. But we won't get anywhere tailoring our message to the militia movement. What appeals to Soccer/Security Moms and Dads may not appeal to members of the militia movement. Does anyone else think Lew Rockwell types identify with a middle class woman who sells weed and who drives a Prius ('cause she's concerned about Global Warming and the Iraq War) and always seems to be swilling somethin' from Starbucks?

Get your non-libertarian friends to watch the show. I know what I'm giving people for Christmas this year. And it ain't a copy of some well reasoned argument.

*Yeah. Celia's like a Twenty-First Century Mr. Babbit. ...and they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.

And I just checked with my wife, and she said that the in-laws (who live in places like Agrestic) would hate it for its portrayal of a drug dealer as a normal mother.

Ken, you are right.

It's even better than you think, Ken: Not only did I say you're right, my wife did too.

However, after agreeing that the show gives a positive portrayal of a drug dealer, my wife went on to say that there's no way we're giving Weeds on DVD to her suburban housewife sisters-in-law.

Maybe not. But I'm not willing to risk it. I'll continue to assert that you're full of it. :-)

I'll say this much for the show and Ken's defense of it. Even if it isn't making a good case for changing the laws. It does focus on all the right issues. From drugs, to immigration, to political graft and corruption.

Also I haven't seen this weeks episode, but seeing Mary Louise Parker getting the Case and Sanborn treatment could very well put her on my hot babe list.

I don't have Showtime right now and, yeah, it's buggin' the heck out of me.

I don't know where it's going, but I'm loosing interest. The show hooked me the first season because of its realism. The second season was good too, but it started going off the rails in season three. That pretty much happens to all shows as the writers run out of material and try to keep things interesting by making it everything "bigger". I'm still watching, but now it's just another TV show and not something that I think accurately portrays the reality of the situation. Then again, now that Nancy is running a front for an international smuggling cartel (and has turned government snitch), I'm out of my league. But it's gotten way too comical to be believable.

EDIT: BTW Ken, ever heard of bit torrent?